would you, given the choice to enter on the prosecution's side at this point or to be part of the defense team, which would you pick, seeing how things have gone? >> the prosecution has an easy job, they don't have a client to protect other than the community, and everything is done for them. if they make a mistake nothing bad happens to them. if you make a mistake on the defense somebody goes to jail for a long time. i prefer to be on the defense philosophically. >> what is your "end point" this morning? >> the first simpson-bowles plan did a lot to drive the debate in washington for a number of years. i think the new plan we're seeing out is not going to be very relevant. >> you don't think it's relevant at all? >> no. >> eight days to go? >> we need smaller goals, we need something that will unwind the sequester and replace it with something less economically damaging and a budget for next year. >> do you think that happens in eight days? >> no but retroactively we'll do some things to undo part of the damage. >> retroactively though? >> yeah, well it's not really

retroactive. the sequester hits but it's not like they immediately cut government spending by "x" percent. it's a process the military says whatever submarines we're building we'll keep building but cancel the one for a few months. >> you don't think it's an eight-day cliff. >> the bigger problem is the uncertainty, we don't know what's going to happen. >> thank you guys for helping us out. coming up tomorrow on "starting point," academy award winning actress acdavia spencer will join with us a preview of the oscars, i'm a huge fan of hers. we'll share an unlikely love story tomorrow on "starting point." "cnn newsroom" with carol "cnn newsroom" with carol costello begins right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com happening now, south africa stunner, breaking details overnight in the oscar pistorius trial.

non-stop shouting the night of the attack, unlicensed ammunition and now new questions about a drug found at the scene. plus searching for victims. >> we just live two blocks down and we just felt our building shake. >> reporter: a massive explosion at one of kansas city's most popular restaurants. >> we thought that a car had literally ran into our apartment. >> reporter: the late night blast yours dozens plus this. >> i'm seth macfar lane and i'll be hosting the oscars this year. >> we sit down with seth mac farlane and who he'll go to for oscar advice. we're live in "the newsroom." good morning, thank you so much for being with me. i'm carol costello. oscar pistorius will have to wait at least one more day to learn if he will be granted bail. the hearing for the olympic sprinter adjourned a little more than an hour ago.

diser toious faces a premeditated murder charge in the valentine's day killing of his girlfriend reeva steenkamp. the defense attorney gave a cross-examination of the police investigator who responded to the crime scene of the home. here are the key points, the officer conceded a substance found in the house may not have been tst testosterone as he previously testified. there was no sign of an assault on steenkamp's body. the investigator did not oppose bail for pistorius and did not establish who owned ammunition in pistorius' safe. pistorius said it belonged to his father. witnesses who heard sounds of arguing were more than 650 yards away and the investigator says he went into pistorius' home without protective foot covering. robyn curnow is covering the trial for us in pretoria, south africa. >> reporter: good morning, we've just seen oscar pistorius drive

past us in a police van, sirens blaring, the police had covered the windows, you know, cameras literally rushing to try and get a picture of him. they didn't. but today, despite his really, really sad quite traumatized demeanor in the past few days, today i must say he seemed quite confident in court. he was at least sitting up straight. he wasn't hunched over. his hands buried in his head, as has been the case in the past few days and i think good reason in a way. his family and himself to be confident because as you mentioned, his defense team really punching holes in the state's evidence. in a way discrediting them, even weakening their evidence. so does that change the ball game? will the magistrate soften his views? will he give him bail? he'll appear tomorrow at 11:00

a.m. local time as that decision is made. >> robyn curnow from south africa. we want to bring in call callan, good morning, paul. >> good morning. >> the story keeps shifting. how difficult is this case for the prosecution? >> well, it's always going to be a difficult case, because they're dealing with a sports hero who has a remarkable personal story, is beloved in south africa. you're also dealing with a country with an extraordinarily high crime rate and wealthy people in south africa live behind walled cities, you know, these housing areas that they live because of fear of crimes so they're playing on that and saying that it's reasonable for him to have thought this was a home invasion and accidental shooting of his girlfriend. prosecutors are fighting an uphill battle, they have a circumstantial case as well so those are the problems that they face. >> the defense seemed to shoot a lot of holes in the prosecution's case today, you

know they were talking about domestic violence, hinting at domestic violence and now we found out that the arguing, somebody heard the arguing but lived far away from pistorius' house. we thought there were injuries to reeva steenkamp in addition to the bullet wounds but turns out there were no other injuries. so what does that say to you? >> well, you know, i think in the end the prosecution is going to say this case is a good case because essentially by the time he got into the bathroom, he would have had to have walked by the bed in which reeva was sleeping so he should have known that she was not in the bed and if she was not in the bed, there was only one other place that she was likely to be and that would have been of course in the bathroom. secondly, you would expect that if he's responding to burglars in the house, why wouldn't he shake his girlfriend and say hey, call the police or get yourself into a safe position. so they're going to make a strong argument that he knew it was her in the bathroom and he

fired four shots through that bathroom door and it was a very small, confined space in which she was struck. we also heard testimony from a neighbor who heard screaming and people arguing before the gunshots, which would go strongly against his case so the prosecution has a lot to say, too. >> paul callan, thanks so much. >> thank you. >> you're welcome. on to kansas city, missouri, where authorities are searching for a missing person after this huge explosion. it was so powerful it blew the roof off a restaurant during happy hour in the downtown area. witnesses said it felt like an earthquake. some people walked away with just a few scratches but at least 14 people were hurt. cnn's ted rowlands is on the scene in kansas city. i can't imagine this, eating in a restaurant and suddenly there's this huge explosion. >> reporter: yes, carol. the good thing is the smell of gas that permeated downtown up to an hour before the explosion and just moments before the

explosion someone came into the restaurant and got almost everybody out. they're still looking for one missing female employee of the restaurant. the explosion which witnesses say could be felt blocks away instantly engulfed j.j.'s restaurant, sending debris including glass and bricks flying through the air, flames towered into the sky and black smoke could be seen for miles. >> we just live two blocks down and we felt our building shake and thought a car had literally ran into our apartment. >> reporter: there were reports of the smell of gas an hour before the explosion. fortunately, several people inside the restaurant were evacuated just minutes before the blast. the cause is still under investigation, but according to the gas company, a contractor doing underground work may have struck a natural gas line. after the fire was put out dogs were brought in, in case there were additional victims. >> i would always fear there are

fatalities in a situation like this. when we got to the scene we had a fully involved restaurant that had several patrons probably inside at the time of the incident and so that's why we're here, searching as we are. >> reporter: the injured range from people who were hit by flying debris to those who suffered severe burns and are now fighting for their lives. and this morning, carol, they're bringing in heavy equipment to move some debris, they'll bring in the cadaver dogs to search for this employee's remains. >> ted rowlands reporting live in kansas city, missouri, today. from southern california toish to ish michigan. triple threat, snow in the west, ice in the plains and midwest and severe storms in the south. right now, winter storm watches and warnings are already up across california, nevada, arizona, new mexico, and colorado. meteorologist jennifer delgado is tracking this huge storm system. good morning. >> good morning, carol. triple threat indeed.

we're talking about snow and two separate areas and the potential for severe storms to pop up later this evening across parts of texas. here are the areas watching, snow in the central plains as well as in the four corners. what we're going to see today is that storm system out of the four corners shifting over towards the east, it's going to combine with the one right on top of oklahoma right now, and that is what's going to allow that snow to really come down, we're talking some locations we're going to see about a foot of snow. here is the radar right now, start to see more of that snow winning out as the rain is changing over from interstate 70 down to 40, but again more snow is going to arrive as we go into the evening hours especially into the morning. that's where you'll see more freezing rain working in for areas like arkansas and the southwestern part of missouri, and eastern parts of kansas and some of these locations we are talking about a half to about three-quarter inches of freezing rain and then it moves towards the northeast and it's going to continue to weaken as we go friday as well as into the weekend. now for snow totals look at

this, carol, a foot or more through parts of kansas, six to eight inches in kansas city and that is going to make for a mess. keep in mind, 16 states under some type of winter weather advisory. >> thank you jennifer. the dow will begin trading at a five-year high of 14,035, that number could go higher on good housing numbers coming in from the government. the commerce department says builders broke ground on more single family homes last month than at any time in the last four years. twice convicted murderer warren lee hill has lived to see another day, just hours after he was supposed to be executed in georgia, two courts have granted a stay of execution. one wants more information on his mental state. his lawyers argue he's mentally retarded and has an iq of 70. it's illegal to execute the mentally disabled. and once considered a rising star, former illinois congressman jesse jackson jr.

heads to court next hour. he's expected to plead guilty to improperly spending campaign money and we're talking lots of money, three-quarters of a million dollars, not for campaign expenses like flyers and buttons but for a $43,000 rolex watch, $5,000 for fur capes and parkas and nearly $10,000 on children's furniture. lisa sylvester joins us now. good morning, lisa. >> hi, good morning, carol. just about ten minutes or so ago jesse jackson jr. and his wife, sandy, actually arrived here at the courthouse and as you mentioned he is expected in about an hour and a half or so to plead guilty. he faces one count of conspiracy to commit mail fraud, wire fraud and making false statements, and this carries a maximum penalty of about five years with a $250,000 fine and it will ultimately be up to the judge to decide how much time if any he actually will have to serve. also his wife is facing a

separate charge of making, filing false tax returns. her hearing is later on this afternoon. she resigned from her post as city council alderman in chicago last month. i got to tell you, carol, what a fall from grace for this family and the legacy of the family, the jesse jackson name, obviously the son of the reverend jesse jackson so we will see in a matter of hours what their fate is but i can tell you that their defense attorneys and both the couple they're going to try really hard that if jesse jackson jr. ends up going to prison that at least his wife does not have to serve any prison time because this couple does have, they have two young children, carol. >> just such a sad fall from grace. lisa sylvester reporting live from washington, d.c. this morning. it's been five months but abc's robin roberts returns to her familiar anchor chair on "good morning america" after successfully battling a rare blood disorder.

she's been going through dry runs to prepare for her on air return and i think she did fine. >> faith, family and friends have brought me to this moment and i am so full of gratitude. there are so many people i want to thank throughout the morning. when i was at home watching through my froggy slippers and see the signs and see people out there it warmed my heart and it's so wonderful, after 174 days. >> it's one of the reasons you're back here so quickly. >> when i said that throughout the morning i want to say thank you and our viewers, i want to wait until the end because i won't be able to get through it but they have so incredibly wonderful. >> roberts had to undergo a bone marrow transplant from her sister to help fight the disease. detroit, the motor city, home of motown could soon make history as the largest city to ever file bankruptcy. some are hoping for a government bailout.

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16 minutes past the hour. close call at savannah's airport as a delta plane slides off the runway and ends up on the grass. airport officials say the pilot apparently overcorrected. passengers are okay. they safely exited the plane and were taken to the airport terminal on buses. gas prices on the rise again. prices at the pump are up 46 cents in the last 32 days, the fastest run-up since 2005. the average price of a gallon nationwide is now $3.77. some stations in los angeles, gas prices are topping the $5 mark. and the cash-strapped post office is launching a clothing line. yes, i said a clothing line. the post office announced a licensing agreement with a cleveland apparel company which will design a line of clothing and accessories under the rain, heat and snow name. the post office will get a small

percentage of the sales and you can dress up like a mailman. president obama bailed out the auto industry to save michigan. what about the city of detroit? does it deserve a federal bailout, too? it's billions of dollars in debt, losing its tax base and today detroit is one step closer to declaring bankruptcy which would make it the largest municipality, municipal bankruptcy in u.s. history. back to the idea of the federal government bailing out detroit. such a thing is not unprecedented. mark binelli from "rolling stone" points out "when new york teetered on the brink of bankruptcy in the 1970s it was famously told in the headline of the daily news to "drop dead" but president gerald r. ford changed his mind and dumped out $2.3 billion in 1975 in federal loans. that was a lot of money. mark binelli is author of

"detroit city: the place to be, the afterlife of an american metropol metropolis" and in detroit mark wolf. tom i want to start with you, the reason we're doing the story is because the state of michigan says detroit is on the verge of collapse. help us understand what's happening now. >> what's happened over the years is the city's lost two-thirds of its population and a lot of it's text based and it's put off the day of reckoning by continuing to borrow to pay obligations that it's promised over the years and finally the day of roeckoning hs come, liabilities up to 14 billion. there's no credible plan for how to pay that in the future and eventually nobody will lend the city any money anymore, and they will come after the assets as collateral. >> the state of michigan, it's unlikely to bail out the city of detroit, even though detroit was once a major metropolis of the

state of michigan and it's unlikely detroit is going to expand its tax base. it's not like they can collect any more taxes. am i saying that right? >> that's exactly it right. the state has limited amount of money, they can put a little in the kitty, but no, the next step is an emergency manager for the city. the school district already has one, and that's probably what the governor would do next but ultimately it could be chapter nine bankruptcy. in either case it's somebody with a big stick, either the manager or a bankruptcy judge that would have the power to avoid union contracts to pull the rug out from under bondholders and all the other drastic things for example happened in the gm bankruptcy. >> mark i'm struggling, if detroit declares bankruptcy, what would that be like, what would that do to the city of detroit? would it slowly crumble into

nothing? >> it's hard to say. we're entering unchartered territory as you said at the top. this would be the largest municipal bankruptcy in u.s. history. and detroit, i moved back in 2009 to write a book about the city and it's already, the services have been cut to the bone as tom said, there's no tax base to speak of. the city can't provide adequate services, 40% of the street lights don't work, the murder rate is, the same number of murders took place in detroit as new york last year even though new york has 11 times the population. all of this kind of stuff is causing residents to leave the city, lots of residents to leave the city as quickly as they can. it's the downward death spiral moving in that direction for quite some time so it's not clear to me what an emergency manager can do. i mean again as tom said it's true, he or she will be able to

crack open this union contracts of public employees, that's a big part of detroit's long-term debt. >> of course they don't have enough people to perform city services. the mayor would say i don't have enough police officers because i can't pay them. going back to the idea that the federal government could somehow help detroit through maybe a federal bailout, the obama administration bailed out the auto industry, right, and was all for that. so why not help the city of detroit, because i would suspect that the people who live in that city voted overwhelmingly for president obama. >> yes, that's true. this has been suggested by -- >> i think -- >> sorry, i this has been suggested by hanson clark, who is the u.s. representative from detroit. i don't think it's -- i suggested it in the op-ed just to put it out there, i don't think it's a realistic proposal unfortunately in this political climate. i mean the federal auto bailout

and the stimulus package were all so unpopular with republicans and i doubt anything like that could get through at this point, but it's something that's worth considering when you look the the level of pain that would have to be inflicted to get detroit's books in order. lot of the long-term debt is municipal bond debt owed to wall street banks and as far as i understand, i think it's really difficult even if you declare bankruptcy to get out of that debt. you mentioned new york nearly going bankrupt in the '70s and federal bankruptcy law was rewritten at that time to basically, so cities going into bankruptcy would have you know would have lots of trouble just canceling that bond debt. so i think it would end up being another one of those cases where union retirees, people who still live in the city, they would get the brunt of the pain if detroit

goes into bankruptcy or even if an emergency manager is appointed but the wall street banks will once again not lose. >> i want to button it up with tom, you live in michigan, you both do, i'm kind of running out of time. as you live in the detroit area and sit back and watch the city crumbling, you know, give us a sense of how that feels. >> well, you know it's a very sad thing in the neighborhoods especially because that's where the deterioration has sort of continued, but downtown there's actually a lot of positive things going on, some clusters of entrepreneurial activity around digital apps and young people moving downtown and some corporate investment. i think ultimately what you need to see is the stakeholders, the business community, the foundations as well as the citizens kind of say okay, here's what we can bring to the

party. everybody knows there's going to be pain and the bondholders and everybody's going to have to take a haircut here to get the finances in shape. then we start over again with probably a long period of government oversight, which they did have in new york as well. >> all right, tom walsh with the "detroit free press" and author of, i'm sorry and "rolling stone" contributor mark binelli thank you for being with us. i wanted to share your book, too. thank you for being with us. we appreciate it. >> thanks. >> thanks for having us. instead of rocky mountain state, colorado's being called rocky mountain high. and we don't mean the mountains when we say that. we'll be right back. stouffer's is proud to make america's favorite lasagna...

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now is your chance to talk back on one of the stouffer he the day. is it wrong for a state to embrace pot tourism? we now have a new word for your vocabulary, smurfing. no, it does not involve body surfing these little blue people as in smurfs. smurfing means going from legal pot shop to legal pot shop in

colorado for the purpose of acumulating marijuana to sell on the black market. that would be a big no-no. legalizing recreational marijuana is one thing but pot tourism? now a colorado task force has come up with ways to prevent smurfing while encouraging pot tourism. the bill would block those out of state pot shop owners but regular folks are encouraged to come and get that rocky mountain high. talk back question for you today, is it wrong for a state to embrace pot tourism? facebook.com/carolcnn, or tweet me @carolcnn. good morning, i'm carol costello. thank you for joining me. stories in "the newsroom" just about 30 minutes past the hour, opening bell on kst keeping a close eye on the dow as it nears a new record high. housing market takes center stage. building permits at their highest levels in four years but

new housing construction did slow down. a wisconsin highway reopens after whiteout conditions caused a 26-car pile-up that snarled traffic for three hours. sheriff's deputies tell a cnn affiliate a truck jack-knifed and crashed into a ditch. visibility was poor, drivers had no time to stop, only minor injuries. the bail hearing for blade runner oscar pistorius resumes tomorrow. he is accused of premeditated murder in the killing of his girlfriend. police investigator says he's a flight risk despite being a high profile athlete. we're back in a minute. [ male announcer ] this is bob,

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lethal injection drugs and another court because experts say hill is indeed mentally retarded. he has an iq of 70 and it's illegally to execute the mentally disable. still state prosecutors say hill's not legally retarded because he was in the navy, he held a job and he managed his own money. victor blackwell is here to explain what happens now. >> and this really last night came down to just about 45 minutes before this execution. here is the tick tock. he was scheduled to be executed at 7:00 p.m. at 4:00 p.m. his attorney entered a plea for a stay of execution. the attorney says just about 45 minutes before the scheduled execution that stay was granted and this whole document, the order comes down to one sentence, i want to put this up on the screen, all of the experts both the state's and the petitioners, hill's, now appear to be in agreement that hill is in fact mentally retarded. i want to stop here because the use of the word retarded offends

people, it's nthough a legal attorney, used by the hill's attorneys, the words disabled, challenged not used once to be described. retarded and mentally retarded used 44 times. that's why we're using it. the state put up three experts who all evaluated him and said he is not mentally retarded but over the years when they got more information they said those initial evaluations were rush jobs. he is indeed mentally retarded and a judge in georgia also determined that based on a preponderance of the evidence that he is mentally retarded. here's the wrinkle, though, as we discussed a moment ago. when the u.s. supreme court determined that it's illegal to sentence capital punishment for the mentally retarded they left it up to the states to determine what that threshold is. in every other state it's the preponderance of the evidence, more likely than not. in georgia it's beyond a

reasonable doubt, that no reasonable attorney or judge would then make that decision that he's mentally capable. next 30 days, they'll make the decision. hill's attorney will enter his plea to say why he believes he's mentally retarded. the state will then rebut and hill another opportunity. >> victor blackville many thanks. >> yes. political buzz, rapidfire look at the best political topics of the day, three topics, 30 seconds on the clock, playing today john avalon, senior political column 'tis and republican strategist rob johnson. welcome to you both. >> hi, carol. >> welcome, hi carol. >> first question, social security and medicare, the third rails of washington's attempts to tame the deficit. touch them and you get burned! former senator alan simpson one

half of the dynamic debt duo simpson bowls, he says if president obama doesn't deal with entitlements his legacy is on the line. >> he knows what to do and if he doesn't get a handle on the entitlements and the solvency of social security, he will have a failed presidency. >> so quit asking for tax increases and do something about entitlements. question, is there an appetite though for cuts to social security and medicare? john? >> it's not even a question of appetite, carol. it's a question of need. the reality is that to keep these programs solvent, keep them strong there needs to be reform and you can do it without painful cuts but adjusting the cost curve. both parties involved in the poll tingz of mediscare to demagogue the issue and president obama needs to lead more effectively if he's going to leave the country in better shape than he found it with regard to long-term deficit and debt.

>> rob? >> yes, i think the only thing this president has an appetite to cut is his golf handicap. furthermore, senator simpson is right. we need to address this but unfortunately the problem is in washington, d.c., and people are scared of silly ads that may run against them in future elections rather than do the right thing to make sure social security is solvent for my generation. >> next question he's leading president obama's efforts to stop gun violence but some of vice president biden's advice on gun safety is making some people scratch their heads. here's what joe biden said during an online chat sponsored by "parents" magazine. >> if you want to protect yourself, get a double barrel shotgun, have the shells of the .12 gauge shotgun and i promise you, as i told my liwif we live in an area secluded. if there's ever a problem walk

out on the balcony, put that double barrel shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house, i promise you, whoever is coming in is not going to -- you don't need an ar-15. >> doubling down on similar remarks he made at a google hangout. is joe biden helping or hurting obama's gun control efforts, rob? >> well look, joe biden is kind of a bull that carries his own china closet and i'm sure the president cringes every time he sees vice president biden in front of a camera. the fact is jill biden's not going to walk out on the balcony and fire a double barrel shotgun but i'm glad that the vice president does admit it's okay for the citizens to have shotguns and as a republican who supports the second amendment he hope he continues to run point on this for aed this mrgs. >> interesting, john? >> joe biden is crazy like a fox here. the point is he's trying to blow through the false dichotomies

expressed by making a point reasonable gun reform doesn't necessarily mean at all that you're against guns in general and if the self-defense argument can be ease ail dressed with a double barrel shotgun rather than an assault weapon whose sole purpose is to kill as many people as quickly as possible. it makes a lot of common sense on main street. >> final question, a new word to add to your vocabulary, smurfing and doesn't involve body surfing little blue people like smurfs. it is described from going pot shop to legal pot shop in colorado for accumulating marijuana to sell on the black market. that is a big no-no. colorado state task force has come up with ways to prevent smurfing while encouraging pot tourism. they want people to tour colorado because of the pot. as you know colorado legalized pot last year and that phrase pot tourism brings us to our question. is it a good thing colorado will

now be known solely for a new kind of rocky mountain high? john? >> oh, you had to bring joe walsh into it. the states are laboratories of democracy. they'd be foolish not to recognize the fact that some foengz are going to travel there for pot but come for the pot, stay for the skiing. it's a beautiful state. i think they'll be known for more than that. >> come for the pot, stay for the skiing but don't do them at the same time for goodness sakes. >> no. >> rob? >> i agree with john, this is a tenth amendment issue. the people of colorado voted to legalize pot and if they want to have pote tourism it's great bu the unemployment rate in this country is high, those of you who shave to take a drug test b careful on your way back home. >> john and rob, thank you for playing today. >> thanks, carol. billy crystal, steve martin, whoopi goldber, now add seth macfarline to the list of hollywood's night. >> it's a bad match.

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he's the man behind tv's family guy. brian and stewey. >> you have some pie? >> sure. >> let me have some of that cool whip. >> what did you say? >> you can't have a pie without cool whip. >> cool whip. >> cool whip. >> cool whip. >> i say cool whip too. anyway this weekend seth mac far l mac fmacfarlane is hosting the oscars. you sat down with seth macfarlane and i'm jealous.

>> you should be because he's kind of cool. there's been a criticism of the oscars. you hear it can be a bit stuffy so undoubtedly the academy is trying to lafen things up. when we heard they had chosen seth macfarland people raised an eyebrow. seth is also a singer and a performer as well as a funny guy. this is the first time you're hosting so is there an added pressure or is it just you know, i know how to do this. i've been in this game for a long time. >> you know the mechanics of it are surprisingly the same as a lot of other stuff that i've done. it's the audience is obviously a billion times bigger. >> it's a tough room. >> and it's a tougher room, yes. it's a very thin skinned room. >> you have an edgy aesthetic so how do you walk that line? >> it's a bad match is i think

what we've arrived at here. i'm the wrong guy to do this. i'm seth macfarlane and i'll be hosting the oscars where we'll be celebrating your favorite films. >> amy poler and tina fey did a lively job. >> i haven't heard good reviews. if i had one review for anything in my career as good as their worst review for that i'd be a happy man. >> does that put more pressure? >> they're fantastic but also beloved by the press so even if they had not done as great a job as they had done i still think there are certain people who have a cart blanch you're awesome, we love you no matter what you do, you know that said they were fantastic, but i wouldn't know if they weren't from reading the press because of those reasons so i'm kind of the opposite. i go in about minus ten with the press so it's like i got to get myself to at least the level where they can tolerate me and then maybe from there i have a

shot at actually getting a positive review. >> do you reach out to those people who you know have killed at the oscars who have done it right? >> i talked to billy crystal and he was super nice guy, and genuinely helpful, took a lot of time out of his schedule to sit down with me and i came out of it with some practical, practical stuff and it was, you know, i'm very grateful to him for taking the time to do that. >> you can tell me one thing he told you? >> get comfortable with your shoes before you get on stage. >> i like that. that's a girl thing. we got to walk in our heels before we get on the big stage. >> sure. >> because you never know, good point. >> my strappies will be well worn in before i get out there. >> i don't know what the protocol is, i don't know if you say good luck, break a leg or give a pound so i'm going to give you a pound because that's what i do, good luck to you. you want to blow it up? thank you, sir. have a good one. see that's what they should have done, shake hands. that was like the two goofy kids

trying to be cool. >> i like that. >> we were completely ridiculous. oh, gosh. we're trying, i mean it's just bad, we should have left that one alone. carol, he is takinghis seriously. usually we get to talk to folks that host the oscars this week, but seth is cutting off communication this week with everyone, no media, no availability leading up to oscar sunday. he wants to be one of the greats, so this kind of got us thinking who are the best and worst oscar hosts? i put that question out on twitter so i'm anxious to see what people are talking about. i want people to talk ba back @nischelleturner on twitter or go to cnn.com for "all things oscars" they have a cool oscar ballot up. you'll be my first person to ask do you have a best or worst oscar host? >> i didn't think david letterman did a great job. didn't whoopi goldberg host the oscars a couple times? >> four times and she's

definitely one of my all-time favorites. >> she had her moments but i must say billy crystal was probably the best. >> yes, you know i'm a little bit of a new school person. i loved ellen degenerous. chris rock got good and bad review, i thought he was hilarious and for my worst, james franco needs to stay away from that. >> i forgot about that with anne hathaway, oh, oh, you're right, that was definitely the worst. nischelle turner, thanks so much. we'll have all the back stage moments and red carpet, the road to gold airs sunday night 6:00 eastern on cnn. t that has changed the modern world... would define you as an innovator. to hold more than one patent of this caliber... would define you as a true leader. ♪ to hold over 80,000... well that would make you... the creators of the 2013 mercedes-benz e-class... quite possibly the most advanced luxury sedan ever.

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everyone has their own way of doing things. at university of phoenix we know learning is no different. so we offer personalized tools and support, that let our students tackle the challenge of going back to school, like they do anything else... their way. 5 3 minutes past the hour. checking our top stories. cadaver dogs are helping search for a missing person after a gas explosion in kansas city, missouri. the blast blew the roof of a restaurant and injured 15 people. the explosion might have started with an underground worker struck a natural gas line. foul play not suspected right now. jeep's twitter account is

restored. a description reading sold to cadillac appears to have been done by the same group who took over burger king's twitter account on monday. certainly you remember this? >> would you have any gray pew upon? >> get ready for this. gray poupon is relaunching to pry to boost gulaging sales from other mustard makers. it features a kas chase, explosion and gets a prime time debut during this sunday's oscars. talk back question of the day. is it wrong for a state to embrace pot tourism? your response is next. stouffer's is proud to make america's favorite lasagna...

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talk back question this morning, is it wrong for a state to embrace pot tourism? this from ken, why not? other states promote so many other negative things, why not promote something that has actual health benefits? we're talking marijuana here. this from bill, pot heads say yes. the rest of us say no. from tim, we have bar and pub promotion in tourist towns and nevada promotes legal prostitution, a little pot promo won't hurt anymore. many states embrace alcohol tourism. budweiser and jack danielles or iconic american symbols. to accept one and not the other

is total hypocrisy. continue the conversation at facebook.com/carolcnn or tweet me @carol cnn. the next hour of news room after the break. searching for a bank designed for investors like you? tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 schwab bank was built with all the value and convenience tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 investors want. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 like no atm fees, worldwide. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 and no nuisance fees. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550

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the race. >> i can never anticipate what is going to push me over the edge. >> senate minority leader mitch mcconnell unveils his first ad attacking actress ashleigh judd. and a new slogan to keep you safe during a violent attack. run, hide, fight. but it's the video that has everyone talking. >> taking the shooting down no matter what. >> looking to make a fashion statement? the u.s. post office announces a line of clothing and accessories. we're live in the news room. >> good morning, thank you so much for being with me. i'm carol costello. final arguments are set for tomorrow in the oscar pistorius bail hearing. today's session is now over. pistorius as you know faces a premeditated murder charge in the killing of his girlfriend reeva steenkamp.

the defense attorney tried to poke holes in the prosecution's case today. he accused investigators of discarding anything that supported the defense's position. he also got the investigating officer to acknowledge going into pistorius's home without protective foot covers. that investigator also testified he does not oppose bail for pistorius. of course, the final decision will be up to the judge. cnn's robyn curnow is outside the court in pretoria south africa. good morning. >> reporter: good morning and what a difference a day makes. you know, yesterday i was telling you how oscar pistorius was at times inconsolable, physically falling over, crying, sobbing. today he was more, well, centered. he seemed to be more in control of himself. he was sitting upright, not bent over. you got a sense that even though he was still scared and perhaps lonely, he was a little bit more confident and with good reason. because it did seem like his

defense team discredited even weakened the state's argument against him. take a look at this. more riveting details on what prosecutors say happened that valentine's day morning and counter charges. according to prosecutors witnesses heard arguing coming from the pistorius home for an hour before the shooting. the defense saying the witnesses's house was 300 meters, about 1,000 feet away. on the stand investigators say pistorius used a cricket bat to break down the bathroom door. that bat and a cell phone found splattered in blood. using a diagram projected on a large screen they say he aimed his gun at the toilet pointing out that he had to turn and file at an angle to hit the toilet. witnesses say they heard a gunshot and heard a female scream and then more gunshots then no female scream. defense attorneys pressed the police officer who said that her

body had no signs of self-defense or defending herself. they could find nothing inconsistent with oscar pistorius's version of events. pistorius says he thought he was shooting at an intruder. they found bullets in a safe at home and that will lead to charges of illegal ammunition. later investigators say they did not establish whose ammunition it was. authorities say they also found two boxes much testosterone and needles which defense attorneys contend is actually herbal medicine. they say there's no way the killing of reeva steenkamp was self-defense, that pistorius knew his girlfriend was in the bathroom when he opened fire. they cited two previous incidents of encounters which suggest he could be prone to violence and he should be held without bail. with that, court is jurnd until tomorrow. about an hour ago a police van came blaring up the road next to us, sirens blasting, the windows

covered to stop all the photographs from trying to get a picture of oscar pistorius who was taken back to his jail cell for the night. it will be tomorrow morning he'll hear whether or not he'll be sleeping another night or perhaps the next few months in jail as that bail hearing, the final arguments, are due to start around 4:00 a.m. eastern time. when your viewers wake up they might have a better sense of what happened. >> robyn curnow we'll check back with you tomorrow. now to kansas city, missouri where authorities are searching for a missing person after a huge natural gas explosion. i was so powerful it blew the roof off a restaurant during happy hour in downtown kansas city. people smelled gas and evacuated just minutes before the blast. witnesses say it felt like an earth quake. some walked away with a few skrechs but at least 15 people were hurt. police believe a contractor may have hit an underground natural

gas line. from southern california to michigan a nasty mess of snow, rain, wind being unleashed. the storm a triple threat, snow in the west, ice in the plains in midwest and severe storms in the south. right now winter storm watches and warnings are up across california, nevada, arizona, new mexico and colorado. close to a foot of snow is expected in the plains and severe storms in texas and other gulf coast states. new information from the commerce department shows a booming housing market. how long has it been since you heard that term? home builders applied for more permits last month than at any time since 2008. alison kosik is at the new york stock exchange. i'm ready to do my happy dance. tell me more. >> let me see that, carol. that would be fun. the housing recovery is for real but there was a bit of a hiccup after showing pretty good

strength. construction of new homes fell in january to half a percent from december. january of 2012 to january of 2011 that number came in stronger from multi family homes but new construction from single family homes makes up a bigger portion of the housing mark. that rose to the highest level since july of 2008. then a second part of this report you want to look at and many argue a more important part. that's building permits, they rose to their highest level in four and a half years. permits are good to look at because they're a great indicator of future building activity and confidence. we talked with david crow. he's a chief p economist of the national association of home builders. he says permits better reflect the strength and recovery. he says we're wonting to climb. carol. >> i'll take that. alison kosik live at the new york stock exchange. there's a new safety video without that was made in part by

the department of home land security. it has a message some of you have not heard before. that will be to fight back during a workplace or school shooting. wait until you see the video and we'll talk about that when we come back.r etitian and last year, she wasn't eating so well. so i recommended boost complete nutritional drink to help her get the nutrition she was missing. and now she drinks it every day. well, it tastes great! [ male announcer ] boost has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones, and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. and our great taste is guaranteed or your money back. learn more at boost.com [ dietitian ] now, nothing keeps mom from doing what she loves... being my mom. is moving backward. [ engine turns over, tires squeal ] and you'll find advanced safety technology like an available heads-up display on the 2013 lexus gs. there's no going back.

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making headlines today. vice president joe biden talking about gun safety to parents. he gave this piece of advice. >> jill, if there's ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony, put that double barrel shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house. >> that would be jill, as in joe biden's wife. talk back question is joe biden helping or hurting obama's gun control efforts. joining the conversation facebook.com/carolcnn or tweet me @carol cnn. n uil, but i'm still stubbed up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels speeds relief to your worst cold symptoms plus has a decongestant for your stuffy nose. thanks. that's the cold truth!

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security, how do you fight a gun man and life? for years we've been told to run, to hide. now there's a new message, fighting back as a last resort. look at this new video put out by the city of houston and the department of home land security. >> as a last resort, if your life is at risk, whether you're alone or working together as a group, fight. act with aggression. improvise weapons, disarm him, commit to taking the shooter down. no matter what. >> let's talk about that. sergeant a.j. dee andrea with the colorado police department and a s.w.a.t. team member who responded to three school shootings. john michael keys is the founder of the i love you guys foundation. his daughter was killed in a school shooting in colorado in 2006. welcome to you both.

>> good morning. >> i'd like to start with you, sergeant. why the change? why are you telling people now to fight back when you are confronted with someone with a gun? >> you're safety is first and fo foremost, your responsibility. if you are faced with that encounter you need to fight for your life. you need to take some action to try and keep yourself or the people you're with safe. >> i just want to go down these points for the benefit of our viewers. in the fight back video it says attempt to incapacitate the shooter and we saw in the video people throwing fire extinct shers but i would suspect the gunman would win. >> i think again, if you are faced with that encounter anything you can do to keep yourself safe, that's improvised

weapons, anything to try and protect yourself. so the video is really kind of empowering people to understand that their safety is their responsibility and if they are faced with that, to fight, to fight to protect yourself. >> i want to address this question to you, john, because one of the other tips on this video is act with physical aggression. we know at least some of the teachers and principles in newtown did act with aggression but that didn't stop the gunman. >> but we have other instances. the dear creek shooting in colorado in 2010. the gunman was attacked and it saved lives. >> are you suggesting that we do need armed security guards in schools or even the workplace? >> that's a tough conversation, but i think it belongs in the local control. it's one of those things where

it's important to give kids permission and staff permission to take charge of their own personal safety. armed security is, i think, a local decision. >> sergeant, when you say that people should fight back, i mean, what if kids are involved and -- if you're teaching this to kids as a way to survive, how young are the kids you're teaching the lesson to? >> again, that's at the local level and that's through the school district for them to decide at what level to have the conversation, but high school kids definitely. there are some big high school kids that should if it happens, again -- first of all, you want to get away. if you can't get away of course we're going to hide. if in the moment in time all you have left is the opportunity to fight, we want you to fight. >> john michael, sadly, this happened in your family.

i don't know, when you examine what happened to your daughter, do you think that this kind of advice would have helped? >> at that moment in time it was a very difficult thing for the kids in that room. with the foundation we talk about actions that are shared vocabulary and shared expectations and behavior between students, staff and first responders. it's a tough conversation sometimes in talking about lockdown but we're creating a time barrier. law enforcement has changed tactics. across the country there's a movement in agencies and departments to really train the patrol and school resource officers, even in single officer response. so the lockdown is a time barrier to allow the first responders in law enforcement to get there. certainly getting out of sight is an important factor in that.

>> thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us this morning. >> thank you. we'll be right back.un staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain and inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function so moving is easier. celebrex can be taken with or without food. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen, naproxen and meloxicam have the same cardiovascular warning. they all may increase the chance of heart attack or stroke, which can lead to death. this chance increases if you have heart disease or risk factors such as high blood pressure or when nsaids are taken for long periods.

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time to check our top stories. the pope may change the constitution of the vatican so that cardinals can vote on a new pope before march 15. pope benedict announced his regular nation citing old age. he officially steps down on the 28th. former congressman jesse jackson jr. is in court expected to plead guilty to buy campaign funds including a $43,000 row lex watch. the democrat from chicago faces up to five years in prison but could get less time as parts of a plea deal. in wisconsin a highway is re-opened after a 26 car highly up snarling traffic for three hours. a truck jack knifed, crashed into a ditch. visibility was so poor that some drivers had no time to stop and minor injuries.

the post office announced a licensing agreement with a cleveland apparel company which will design clothing and accessories under the rain, heat and snow name. the post office will get a small percentage of the sales and you'll find advanced safety technology like an available heads-up display on the 2013 lexus gs. there's no going back. on the 2013 lexus gs. new griddle-melts to yourime usual breakfast sandwich. a lot more flavor. [ anouncer ] ihop's new griddle melts... made fresh and hot! hand crafted just for you. it's like a sexy sandwich. [ anouncer ] compare new griddle melts yourself. just $4.99. it's an epic breakfast sandwich. all stations come over to mithis is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one.

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somebody talk to me. who is out there? be quiet. be quiet or he'll kill you! >> oh, my god. >> judd probably didn't expect her latest attack to come from senator miernlt leader mitch mcconnell who targets judd who has not even said whether she's running for office yet. >> from the volunteer state i proudly stand to nominate. >> reporter: for ashley judd it's like a bad movie sequel. for the second time this month the kentucky native is a target in an attack ad. the ad from the man judd may be looking to unseat, senate minority leader mitch mcconnell, top party leaders in the state say a judd candidacy could

happen. >> she's smart. she knows the issues. oing she wob a great canada. >> reporter: she spent much of her childhood in kentucky, her mother and sister, both country music stars, hang in the local museum. >> we are proud that she is from this area and all the achooeflts that she has made. >> her grandmother who can still be found in the home where the actress lived as a girl still questions the wisdom of the senate run. >> she is a hollywood liberal. i say that and that has different meanings for different people. it depends which side of the fence you're on. >> reporter: earlier this month another attack ad from the carl rove super pac cross roads pointed out the actress lives in tennessee. >> it just clicked, tennessee is home. >> her toughest hurdling may not be her roots. she still attends games in

kentucky. >> i love and am proud of being a hillbilly. >> reporter: she's a fear critic of coal mining. >> the fact that the app latch ens makes this jenn side possible. >> it apars to be a change in strategy from earlier this month when he said he's not focused on potential democratic rivals. >> i'm not going to start handicapping who might be my opt. >> reporter: mcdonnell disputes the notion that he's worried about it. he went on to say the senator is, in fact, a fan of judd's movies. cnn, washington. coming up next our special talk back show hot topics, hot conversation and your comments. first talk back question, is joe biden helping or hurting president obama's gun control

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with xerox, you're ready for real business. . fresh off hosting a political fund riser for republican chris christy, facebook founder mark zuckerberg announcing a prize for research in science. he will be live on cnn this afternoon at 3:00 p.m. eastern to discuss that new project. be sure to join us then. "am5úuów

. welcome to our new half-hour show, talk back, three hot topics, great guests your comments on tap. vice president joe biden gives unique advice about guns. a state embracing pot tourism. playing with us sirius radio host patricia murphy, and john

avlon and sr. political columnist for news week and the daily beast and op-ed columnist for the new york times. welcome to all of you. is joe biden helping or hurting president obama's gun control efforts? uncle joe, there he goes again talking about guns in a way that might make gun rights folks roll their eyes. >> she asks do you believe that banning certain weapons and high capacity magazines will mean that law abiding citizens will then become more of a target to criminals as we will have no way to sufficiently protect ourselves? >> is this parents magazine? >> it is. >> i have it at home and i have never heard anyone from them ask these questions. if you want to protect yourself get a double barrel shotgun. as i told my wife, we live in an area that's wooded and somewhat secluded. i said, jill, if there's ever a problem, walk out on the ball

con knee here, put that double barrel shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house. >> just make sure you don't hit anything unless you mean it. oddly, the vice president said these things in an online chat sponsored by parents magazine. wasn't it just lt month biden was dispensing this sage advice in the case of a natural disaster? >> a shotgun will keep you a lot safer. a double barrel shotgun than an assault weapon in somebody's hands who doesn't know how to use it, it's harder to hit something with an assault weapon. buy some shotgun shells. >> president obama obviously has confidence in joe biden. he put biden in charge of his gun control tasks force and biden has tried. he envald a series of p hen biden becomes uncle joe does any of it matter.

question, is joe biden helping or hurting obama's gun control efforts ross? >> this is the sha tick, right? we talk about this as if it's joe biden going off the reservation or something. this is the roll joe biden is supposed to play in the white house. the president gets up and sort of acts skreb ral and high minded and tells you that studies show that his positions are correct of the biden goes out and said god love you, just go buy a sht gun. there it's helping or hurting i don't know but i don't think anybody in the white house is losing sleep over this strategy. this is the strategy that works. >> michael anglo, some might say this is smart because joe biden is no longer talking about gun control but gun safety education, he is embracing the shotgun in an apparent show that he just loves guns, not certain kinds of guns. >> look, the administration is trying to reach gun owners and

gun advocates, people who are responsible gun owners. i talk to them all the time every day on my radio program. they agree largely with the administration's proposals. they want to hear more and he's relating to them and saying, look, you can have a gun, protect yourself, you can go hunting. we're just talking about the kinds of guns that will allow people who are unstable to easily get guns and shoot a lot of people. >> but patricia, when joe biden says things like a shotgun will keep you safe in an earth quake, doesn't that make gun rights advocates kind of roll their eyes and say he reinforced everything we think of when we think of liberals with guns? >> nobody has ever accused joe biden of being the most elegant mess enger that the white house is trying to roll out. in this case i think he's helping the cause because he's giving a third way to think about guns in the middle of this

debate and there is one side with the nra saying this administration wants to take away your guns that is literally their message to their members. not a lot of thb members believe that but they're looking for a way to think of these modest restrictions that they propose. there's another side that wants to restrict guns almost entirely on a state by state basis so i think that joe biden is actually giving us a third way to think about this and there needs to be a third way in this debate. again, it's joe biden being joe biden but that's not always a bad thing. >> i think john, the next time joe biden will appear with a shotgun and fire it off into the air. >> i think that would be awesome. i think he should do that sooner rather than later. joe biden is a secret weapon for this administration for all the reasons pointed out. so often in this debate we dumb it down and dem onnize dis2k3wr50e789s and ignore the common sense way folks use guns. people use guns differently in rural and urban areas. what he's talking about in this

eth quake scenario is self-defense. shotguns may be more effective as an assault weapon and kills as many people as quickly as possible. joe biden is doing a disserves by talking to real people and breaking through the stereo types. >> all that i say is the political calculation as everybody has said is that the administration is trying to isolate the small number of americans who own so called assault weapons from the much larger number of americans who might think of buying a shotgun in case of apocalypse. a small number of americans own assault rifles an if you're trying to do something about gun violence, in the past assault weapons ban, the last one we had was fairly ineffective because they're just a small fraction of the pool of guns.

most gun crimes are committed with hand guns. most mass gun crimes are committed -- there's a wide variety of guns used. the politics are effective but the policy is more dubious than john is giving credit for. >> justice ska leah said the second amendment has reasonable restrictions applied to it. it doesn't mean people have a right to own whatever gun they want at all times. this is a way of moving that ball forward, make people realize that that argument that the obama administration is coming for your guns, fear morningering is false. >> the question again is joe biden helping or hurting president obama's gun control efforts? he helped himself to a british speech once. i believe in our president's judgment, carol, if the vice president was not capable and able to help, he would not having assigned to do the job. keep the conversation going facebook.com/carolcnn or tweet

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. talk back, is it time to revisit the death penalty, with his death only a half-hour away, warren lee hill, a twice convicted killer was granted a stay of execution. he shot his girlfriend 11 times and blujenned a fell low inmate to death, but he has an iq of 70. to his lawyer that makes all the difference. >> there's now no dispute amungsz any of the experts who have evaluated mr. hill over the last 22 years that he is mentally retarded. >> and as the supreme court has ruled, america must not execute mentally disabled people. americans appear con fliktd on the death penalty although a

majority still favor it. the number of ex kugsz has gone way down since the 1990s. from 98 in 1999 to just 43 in 2011, many juries prefrg to impose life without parole. more than 140 people have been freed from death row with evidence of their innocence. question this morning, is it time to revisit the death penalty. michael anglo? >> this case is another example of how science and technology are showing us more and more how im precise this kind of a decision is to kill somebody, put them to death, based on a verdict, based on some im precise measure. obvious obviously dna has done a lot in showing people who are innocent of crimes but in this case the doctors who didn't believe that warren hill was mentally retarded ten years ago because of new science and technology

and new ways of measuring it changed their opinion now. georgia has this law that says that you have to be very precise about how you decide somebody is mentally retarded, and it's very hard to meet their standard. these doctors change their minds. the court did the right thing. i think we are getting as a society further and further to a point where we are going to abolish the death penalty. >> this is a particularly difficult case, patricia because this man may have an iq of 70. he did hold a job, served in the navy and he knew enough to kill a cell mate with an improvised weapon. you can see why it's a difficult decision for the courts? >> you can and that's the problem with this death penalty cases. we were talking about im precise and now more precise ways to measure this and also the emotion on the other side. i have to say that the emotion of having a man be on death row and nearly executed with 30

minutes left before you examine some of these issues is the wrong way to do it. its so cruel to the families of the victims and the families on death row. it does feel like we need a moratorium to put a stop to everybody on death row to start to examine these issues. this is not the first time that georgia has thought about these issues but how can you let it go until 30 minutes before a man is set to be killed. there were also questions about the legal injection process and dna evidence not this this case but other cases. >> shawn, patricia may be right because juries seem loathe to impose the death penalties these days. >> that's a step towards being responsible with the ultimate power. the innocence project which uses nan evidence to release people wrongly convicted has released 18 people on death row,

overturned those convictions because of new dna evidence. that's 18 people too many. i do think the death penalty has raged and while it's bad for the psyche of a free society it is important to impose extraordinary circumstances but jumping in 30 minutes before an execution in 2013 is inexcusable and cruel and unusual. >> when you sit in a courtroom and hear testimony from these terrible evil people and there are evil people you change your mind about the death penalty and it's not so simple to say it's never right to kill anyone. >> i think the difficulty with the death pen aeth is there are cases where to many people it feels unjust not to impose it. so if you have an absolute moratorium, then you are going to end up with a number of cases where life without parole feels like an insufficient sentence. it feels like there are cases

where the penalty that the killer has to pay to society should be greater than that. the overall trend is a positive one, that we as a society -- obviously we don't want to be doing it 30 minutes before the execution but the juries being warrior about imposing the penalty, that's a good trend. but as long as the united states remains a society where these things are decided democratly there is going to be strong resistance to outlaw the death penalty all together. >> we want to check in with facebook friends. is it time to revisit the death penalty. corrie says we need the death penalty as the ultimate punishment for horrible crimes. that's called justice, jason, it's time to revisit the death penalty. i don't trust the government to give punish.

next up is it wrong for a state to embrace pot tourism? it's a hawk with night vision goggles. it's marching to the beat of a different drum. and where beauty meets brains. it's big ideas with smaller footprints. and knowing there's always more in the world to see. it's the all-new lincoln mkz.

our last talk back question, is it wrong for a state to embrace pot tourism? we now have a new word you could add to your vocabulary. it's called smurfing. it does not involve body surfing blue people. smufing means going from pot shop to pot shop in colorado for the purpose of accumulating marijuana to sell on the black market. that's a big no no. legalizing recreational marijuana is one thing but colorado is coming up with rules

and regulations so that it can encourage people to come to colorado to experience pot. they want pot tourism. the question for you this morning, is it right to encourage such a thing, to embrace the rocky mountain high and mean it in a whole different way? who should i start with today? i'll start with ross, not that you look like a pot smoker or anything. >> of course, no, you would never accuse me of that. i think that what we're seeing -- this is federalism at work. we had this ka casino gam lg where the only states that had it were new jersey and nevada and both have embraced gambling tourism. there's no question that bh states were relying on the fact that they were outliars to draw people there. if you are colorado or one of the other states that have fold suit or will it's pretty much

inevitable. it does give us an opportunity to see how this plays out. i'm skeptical of the merits of legalizing marijuana but i think it will be useful in terms of our debate to see what happens in colorado just as it's useful to look at legalizing prostitution to say maybe we don't actually want to do that. >> i tend to think of the city of detroit because it's on the verge of bankruptcy, right, which is sad. it doesn't have a tax base or anything. maybe it should think about pot and urban farming already. there's plenty of land in the city of detroit -- john you're shaking your head. >> i like the whole plan for detroit's future, pot, plan for the future. look, this is a laboratory of democracy issue. states can innovate and see what happens to their economies and what unintended consequences occur. i think you may see other states if there's a big tax revenue boost which was part of the argument made by advocates embracing the same thing.

at the end of the day some people will visit colorado to buy pot but there are a lot of other reasons to visit such a beautiful state and the va moert are going to have nothing to do with pot. >> some people? i'm thinking a lot of people will do it. >> i think there will be a lot of people going there for sure. i do think that it is going to push other states to move in this direction. not just because of the revenue issue but you're going to have a lot of issues with people going to colorado, buying marijuana. i know the smurfing you can't buy too much and whatever. if your friend is a colorado resident, the resident can get it. people can bring it home. you're going to have a lot of issues with people going back home, having marijuana. we're going to have a lot of ridiculous waste on arrests of people. i think other states are going to say, you know what, we're wasting a lot of money, colorado is doing it, let's do it too. i think we're going to see this grow. >> i think this is the first of many states who will say let's

embrace it. if we can't fight it, let's embrace it and make money off of it. >> it's still a federal crime to sell marijuana. the federal government is not prosecuting. they have told their agents we have a lot of other battles to fight, don't bother with the pot people. i think we're going to see more and more states try and bring those into the sunlight at least regulation. if you know people are selling pot in your state you can start to make revenue off of it and bring it out into legal society and have regulations. there are regulations about how much you have to grow within your facility. they have inspectors. there is a way to make it as safe and legal as possible if it's going to be used anyway. >> there is something kind of wrong in my mind. you know colorado from the beautiful mountains and skiing and the denver broncho oh,s and john elway. now truly it's only known for

pot. >> it's not only known for pot but it's been known for pot for a long time. >> what? >> libertarianism in action. let's see what happens. >> do you want to button it up, ross? >> all i would say is that what you want in this system is the ability to have the laboratories of democracy so to speak do their work, but you also want to be able to walk things back. i think that's the difficulty that we have. we run experiments and they don't work but then we aren't able to walk them back. for colorado the important thing is see how this works, see what it means to have legal marijuana in your stantd don't be afraid to take a step back five years from now. there has to be a met for somewhere in there. i couldn't come up with it, i'm sorry. >> patricia, you brought up the best point. colorado doesn't entirely have its act together when it comes to the laws on the books

regarding marijuana and how they are going to enforce them. >> they are one of the few states that does have their act together. there are arrest lagsz that say you can sell it here for this reason. we're going to have inspector come look at it. over other state is looking the other way and i think colorado is getting their arms around it. >> don't forget we have washington state as well, you have medical marijuana in a variety of other states, too. it is moving in that direction for sure. >> all right. let's see what your facebook friends say -- first i want to thank my guests, michael anglo, patricia murphy and john avlon and ross columnist for the new york times. i'm out of breath. thank you all for participating today. i appreciate it. we'll be right back. i idn't rea.

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